Art, Morphestra sounds impressive. I listened to the trailer teasers on their website. Pretty cool.
Hey Matt! I don’t use loops at all. I compose all the parts and play all the parts in real time using samples.
Something about the “loop” business really disagrees with me. Using loops sucks originality out of music IMO. I know; the loopers will have my head for that remark.
I guess there’s a wide range of what could be considered a ‘loop’. I often like to combine my traditional note by note orchestral music with synth arpeggiators, and every now and then will use a guitar or percussion loop. Those just sound bad when programmed with MIDI. You could always record and then program your own unique loops, which is what a lot of the big composers do.
Sounds like you’re a very traditional kid of writer, which is great… but what happens if you’re asked to create a score for a film temped with Hans Zimmer or John Powell?
I agree with Emmett. I don’t want to spend hours tweaking samples. My time is better spent composing – hopefully original music.
I will continue purchasing the best samples I can afford. I’m using Logic Pro, East West Quantum Leap “Gold” samples, and several other sample packages. I’m going to be adding the Vienna Strings soon.
Hi John. I don’t think there’s any need to tweak orchestral samples, which is what it sounds like you’re focusing on (judging by the list of libraries you gave). The lameness enters when multiple TV shows start using music with exactly the same loops. Can be embarrassing for the composer when called out on it.
The kind of tweaking that I usually do is adding effects like distortion and / or EQ. Nothing too heavy there, usually I have the setting ready to go on those effects too. Just a few minor changes can render the loops / arpeggiators completely unrecognizable.
That’s not a knock on omnisphere though. That’s actually a compliment attributable to the wide and deep library of presets it contains. It’s about as programmable as anything around.
I don’t disagree with the observation, just the emphasis.
it IS programmable, but like a lot of synths – soft or hardware – when the presets are sometimes soooo good…
Ive spoken to a number of techs over the years , including dave smith himself and one or two guys at moog, when things wernt quite working as they should. Do you know what a lot of them agree on, if they’re asked? …
It’s that 80% (and more) of synthesizers/sound modules that come back for servicing/repairs, dont have ANY new sounds programmed into them. That’s shocking. Even ignoring the 80′s period stuff with membrane buttons etc, what about everything with knobs and sliders?
Ive used a few of the arturia virtual synths too, and the irony is theyre EVEN easier to program, simply because everything is easier to do , due to the use of on screen real estate. But how many new user patches or banks do you see for these beauties?…
Presets are good…too damn good sometimes for doing anything other than getting on with making music with them.
Until of course you realise that “your sound” sounds a lot like “his” or “her” sound, sometimes. Which can be a good thing, or a bad thing depending on where youre sitting
I do agree with you s r, I just don’t spend much time, or any at all, making my own presets as I personally think its a bit of a waste. I think you can definitively still create your own identity and stand out a little aswell even by just using presets. I mean, what did composers do back in the day, when all they had was the orchestra? They all still managed to sound different even though they were limited to the “preset” sounds of an orchestra. Its what you do with what you have that counts, but yes I do agree with you – making new sounds other than the presets is a great way to sound different and unique.
Maybe I’m just being lazy, but I suppose I just rather spending time on composing than fiddling around with sounds to make something sound just a tiny bit different. I have an Access Virus Ti keyboard, and theres about 3300 presets alone on it – I don’t think I’d ever run out of sounds on it, so I’d find making some custom sounds a labourious and boring job lol.
Don’t get me wrong – I’m not disagreeing with you, or saying you’re wrong, I suppose we all just have different ways of going about composing I know a lot of people who prefer to make their own custom sounds, rather than use presets, its just not something thats appealed to me…yet
If you lived down the road emmett, Id happily lend you the moog voyager or roland system 100 from my studio. Although the moog has 896 presets, all those knobs and switches are BEGGING to be tweaked. As for the roland system 100…if you dont tweak anything, then you dont get anywhere..it has no memories, but then most synths from 1976 dont either
My point is that i started on synths with memories but tactile surfaces that made it MUCH EASIER to tweak and modify. You dont need a degree in maths and physics ( ironically i did major in both for my degree) to modify a sound…just grab something and go for it. You can always hit the preset button if things get too out of hand.
I agree that back in the day, it was ALL orchestra, but believe it or not, there wasnt and arent too many hal blaine’s ( he was the cream of session drummers in LA) , etc, and it was THE PLAYERS who sometimes helped add extra zing to an arrangement. Again, at the risk of thwacking all of us who come here, none of us are OLIVER NELSON or MIKE POST or DON PEAKE..are we? I mention these guys, cause they had some of the creame of score jobs for some of the best known shows of the 70′s and 80′s .
Yes, the arrangement and idea is ALWAYS king, but in these technology driven, tough, competitive times, everyone wants to make their mark . Back in the day, there wasnt anywhere near as many people trying to do what we’re all doing now, so sonics wernt perhaps as important. Also synth technology was still very new. Now?…look at the numbers. In fact, there may well be some future kings and queens just on this site alone, but making your mark has become intertwined with at the very least ,HANDSHAKING with innovative technologies.
I suppose I don’t write enough electronic based music yet, so I haven’t exactly been thrown into the thick of it enough yet to warrant playing around with presets – hell I don’t think I’ve even got the entire way through all my presets on my keyboard yet. But yea, now that I think of it, I do see where you’re coming from – I was just thinking about the whole situation regarding orchestral samples more so than keyboard presets.
What you say is right, but what I see at the moment is a different situation. I’m doing a videogame who requests ambient music, and looking for libraries of sounds I found hundreds of them on the internet. So it seems to me that there are so many presets nowadays (Omnisphere alone is REALLY huge) and the synths sounds are so different that there is the same probability for two composers to use today the same preset than, in the past, to come with a very similar sound even if making it from scratch.
My ONLY gripe with omnisphere , even though it sounds amazing, is that everyone i know who uses it , uses just the presets alone, so everyone has a similar, recognisable sound. Maybe its just me, but perhaps cause of all the analog synths i own and learnt programming on, i like to tweak things to get away from the “aural concrete” syndrome.
Incidentally Art, have you emailed spectrasonics or had any contact with them? Im sure I can remember theres an odd clause in their t&c’s regarding the use of their sounds in projects, which is other than the standard “reverse engineering” clause.
Yes, I like to tweek also but sometimes do get sucked in by some pre-sets.
I read over the the T & C for RMX a few years ago when I first purchased it and didn’t see anything that concerned me. Of course I’m not a lawyer. There are some things I stay away from that specifically say they cannot be used in library or production music. Big Fish Audio as an example. They state:
“This license does not allow you to include the samples, whether unmodified or as part of a derivative work, in any music library or sample library product. However, a “special use” license may be requested from Big Fish Audio, free of charge, if you wish to use this product as part of a musical work intended for use with music libraries (some conditions apply, and Big Fish Audio retains the right to refuse any request that does not meet those conditions).”
The “special use” language wasn’t there a few years ago. That’s new and I wonder what that is.
Hey S R, same can be said for just about any softsynth that has mass appeal – like older ones: RMX, storm drum, RA, Voices of Passion, Bizarre Guitar etc. It’s pretty poor form IMO to use the sounds straight out of the box, without any tweaking or customization. I’m always tinkering and experimenting with effects and EQ to create an original sound. I like it when composer friends can’t figure out what I’m using, hate when they do! That said, you’ll still hear patches straight out of the box, pretty much entirely exposed, on major TV shows. I guess time = money, and that equation trumps artistic originality LOL!
Like i said below, sometimes the presets are so damn good, that theyre ripe for getting stuck in with. However, using them “neat” as it were, is only for the brave…or the lazy ( perhaps the rich and endorsed?) . The irony being, of course, that many of the top flighters have teams of programmers; i wonder then, as to what they must be doing..
Yes Matt, I do agree about the samples and the early days of synths. I had one of the first Emulators back in the early 80s and remember those samples well! Still have some of those around.
BTW ran across some of your stuff today. Really great stuff! East/West, VSL, and/or? Maybe I should start a page on gear and software folks are using.
Thanks Art, actually what you heard was mostly a lot of older samples like early VSL, Sonic Implants and SAM Brass… A few months ago I finally got around to updating my libraries with goodies like Symphobia and Omnisphere.
I’ve been torn between Omnisphere and Morphstra. I really like Spectrasonics as a company. Great support so I lean towards them. Symphobia is also on my list. So much software, so little time!
Omnisphere is great value for money – it’s huge! Symphobia is also good value for money, although it’s more expensive. There are a lot of usable orchestral patches in it that could replace most older sample libraries, and are especially useful for the big epic trailer type stuff.
Art, Morphestra sounds impressive. I listened to the trailer teasers on their website. Pretty cool.
Hey Matt! I don’t use loops at all. I compose all the parts and play all the parts in real time using samples.
Something about the “loop” business really disagrees with me. Using loops sucks originality out of music IMO. I know; the loopers will have my head for that remark.
Hi John,
I guess there’s a wide range of what could be considered a ‘loop’. I often like to combine my traditional note by note orchestral music with synth arpeggiators, and every now and then will use a guitar or percussion loop. Those just sound bad when programmed with MIDI. You could always record and then program your own unique loops, which is what a lot of the big composers do.
Sounds like you’re a very traditional kid of writer, which is great… but what happens if you’re asked to create a score for a film temped with Hans Zimmer or John Powell?
Anyone using Morphestra yet? What do you think?
I agree with Emmett. I don’t want to spend hours tweaking samples. My time is better spent composing – hopefully original music.
I will continue purchasing the best samples I can afford. I’m using Logic Pro, East West Quantum Leap “Gold” samples, and several other sample packages. I’m going to be adding the Vienna Strings soon.
Hi John. I don’t think there’s any need to tweak orchestral samples, which is what it sounds like you’re focusing on (judging by the list of libraries you gave). The lameness enters when multiple TV shows start using music with exactly the same loops. Can be embarrassing for the composer when called out on it.
The kind of tweaking that I usually do is adding effects like distortion and / or EQ. Nothing too heavy there, usually I have the setting ready to go on those effects too. Just a few minor changes can render the loops / arpeggiators completely unrecognizable.
That’s not a knock on omnisphere though. That’s actually a compliment attributable to the wide and deep library of presets it contains. It’s about as programmable as anything around.
I don’t disagree with the observation, just the emphasis.
it IS programmable, but like a lot of synths – soft or hardware – when the presets are sometimes soooo good…
Ive spoken to a number of techs over the years , including dave smith himself and one or two guys at moog, when things wernt quite working as they should. Do you know what a lot of them agree on, if they’re asked? …
It’s that 80% (and more) of synthesizers/sound modules that come back for servicing/repairs, dont have ANY new sounds programmed into them. That’s shocking. Even ignoring the 80′s period stuff with membrane buttons etc, what about everything with knobs and sliders?
Ive used a few of the arturia virtual synths too, and the irony is theyre EVEN easier to program, simply because everything is easier to do , due to the use of on screen real estate. But how many new user patches or banks do you see for these beauties?…
Presets are good…too damn good sometimes for doing anything other than getting on with making music with them.
Until of course you realise that “your sound” sounds a lot like “his” or “her” sound, sometimes. Which can be a good thing, or a bad thing depending on where youre sitting
Are you really any worse of a musician for just using the presets? Technically the entire orchestra is just a load of presets waiting to be used
Emmet its not about being better or worse a musician, its about trying to stand out a litle and trying to create an identity of your own too.
Maybe im in a minority on that one, but thats cool.
I do agree with you s r, I just don’t spend much time, or any at all, making my own presets as I personally think its a bit of a waste. I think you can definitively still create your own identity and stand out a little aswell even by just using presets. I mean, what did composers do back in the day, when all they had was the orchestra? They all still managed to sound different even though they were limited to the “preset” sounds of an orchestra. Its what you do with what you have that counts, but yes I do agree with you – making new sounds other than the presets is a great way to sound different and unique.
Maybe I’m just being lazy, but I suppose I just rather spending time on composing than fiddling around with sounds to make something sound just a tiny bit different. I have an Access Virus Ti keyboard, and theres about 3300 presets alone on it – I don’t think I’d ever run out of sounds on it, so I’d find making some custom sounds a labourious and boring job lol.
Don’t get me wrong – I’m not disagreeing with you, or saying you’re wrong, I suppose we all just have different ways of going about composing
I know a lot of people who prefer to make their own custom sounds, rather than use presets, its just not something thats appealed to me…yet 
If you lived down the road emmett, Id happily lend you the moog voyager or roland system 100 from my studio. Although the moog has 896 presets, all those knobs and switches are BEGGING to be tweaked. As for the roland system 100…if you dont tweak anything, then you dont get anywhere..it has no memories, but then most synths from 1976 dont either
My point is that i started on synths with memories but tactile surfaces that made it MUCH EASIER to tweak and modify. You dont need a degree in maths and physics ( ironically i did major in both for my degree) to modify a sound…just grab something and go for it. You can always hit the preset button if things get too out of hand.
I agree that back in the day, it was ALL orchestra, but believe it or not, there wasnt and arent too many hal blaine’s ( he was the cream of session drummers in LA) , etc, and it was THE PLAYERS who sometimes helped add extra zing to an arrangement. Again, at the risk of thwacking all of us who come here, none of us are OLIVER NELSON or MIKE POST or DON PEAKE..are we? I mention these guys, cause they had some of the creame of score jobs for some of the best known shows of the 70′s and 80′s .
Yes, the arrangement and idea is ALWAYS king, but in these technology driven, tough, competitive times, everyone wants to make their mark . Back in the day, there wasnt anywhere near as many people trying to do what we’re all doing now, so sonics wernt perhaps as important. Also synth technology was still very new. Now?…look at the numbers. In fact, there may well be some future kings and queens just on this site alone, but making your mark has become intertwined with at the very least ,HANDSHAKING with innovative technologies.
Yup I see where you’re coming from actually
I suppose I don’t write enough electronic based music yet, so I haven’t exactly been thrown into the thick of it enough yet to warrant playing around with presets – hell I don’t think I’ve even got the entire way through all my presets on my keyboard yet. But yea, now that I think of it, I do see where you’re coming from – I was just thinking about the whole situation regarding orchestral samples more so than keyboard presets.
What you say is right, but what I see at the moment is a different situation. I’m doing a videogame who requests ambient music, and looking for libraries of sounds I found hundreds of them on the internet. So it seems to me that there are so many presets nowadays (Omnisphere alone is REALLY huge) and the synths sounds are so different that there is the same probability for two composers to use today the same preset than, in the past, to come with a very similar sound even if making it from scratch.
My ONLY gripe with omnisphere , even though it sounds amazing, is that everyone i know who uses it , uses just the presets alone, so everyone has a similar, recognisable sound. Maybe its just me, but perhaps cause of all the analog synths i own and learnt programming on, i like to tweak things to get away from the “aural concrete” syndrome.
Incidentally Art, have you emailed spectrasonics or had any contact with them? Im sure I can remember theres an odd clause in their t&c’s regarding the use of their sounds in projects, which is other than the standard “reverse engineering” clause.
Yes, I like to tweek also but sometimes do get sucked in by some pre-sets.
I read over the the T & C for RMX a few years ago when I first purchased it and didn’t see anything that concerned me. Of course I’m not a lawyer. There are some things I stay away from that specifically say they cannot be used in library or production music. Big Fish Audio as an example. They state:
“This license does not allow you to include the samples, whether unmodified or as part of a derivative work, in any music library or sample library product. However, a “special use” license may be requested from Big Fish Audio, free of charge, if you wish to use this product as part of a musical work intended for use with music libraries (some conditions apply, and Big Fish Audio retains the right to refuse any request that does not meet those conditions).”
The “special use” language wasn’t there a few years ago. That’s new and I wonder what that is.
Hey S R, same can be said for just about any softsynth that has mass appeal – like older ones: RMX, storm drum, RA, Voices of Passion, Bizarre Guitar etc. It’s pretty poor form IMO to use the sounds straight out of the box, without any tweaking or customization. I’m always tinkering and experimenting with effects and EQ to create an original sound. I like it when composer friends can’t figure out what I’m using, hate when they do! That said, you’ll still hear patches straight out of the box, pretty much entirely exposed, on major TV shows. I guess time = money, and that equation trumps artistic originality LOL!
Very true!
Like i said below, sometimes the presets are so damn good, that theyre ripe for getting stuck in with. However, using them “neat” as it were, is only for the brave…or the lazy ( perhaps the rich and endorsed?) . The irony being, of course, that many of the top flighters have teams of programmers; i wonder then, as to what they must be doing..
Yes Matt, I do agree about the samples and the early days of synths. I had one of the first Emulators back in the early 80s and remember those samples well! Still have some of those around.
BTW ran across some of your stuff today. Really great stuff! East/West, VSL, and/or? Maybe I should start a page on gear and software folks are using.
Thanks Art, actually what you heard was mostly a lot of older samples like early VSL, Sonic Implants and SAM Brass… A few months ago I finally got around to updating my libraries with goodies like Symphobia and Omnisphere.
I’ve been torn between Omnisphere and Morphstra. I really like Spectrasonics as a company. Great support so I lean towards them. Symphobia is also on my list. So much software, so little time!
Omnisphere is great value for money – it’s huge! Symphobia is also good value for money, although it’s more expensive. There are a lot of usable orchestral patches in it that could replace most older sample libraries, and are especially useful for the big epic trailer type stuff.